Displaying #cassandra-dev/2017-06-14.log:

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Wed Jun 14 08:55:54 2017  sedulam:At what size is it a row considered to be wide? I'm trying to create some tests with wide rows.
Wed Jun 14 08:58:56 2017  sedulam:No in the sense of the primary key containing other columns, but in the sense of space disk. Forgot wide rows have that meaning here :)
Wed Jun 14 09:01:15 2017  sedulam:Is 2MB per row a considerable size? Or should I go higher? I want to see if a compaction holds with big rows
Wed Jun 14 09:05:09 2017  sedulam:Never mind thanks anyway, found a good post on SO with good examples
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Wed Jun 14 09:55:09 2017  ostefano:I am struggling to understand the actual reason of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-13043
Wed Jun 14 09:56:04 2017  ostefano:could anyone give it a look?
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Wed Jun 14 16:31:57 2017  jeffj:with 13004 landing soon, we probably need to prep 2 release votes (3.0.14 and 3.0.15). anything else that needs to go into 3.0 before the release?
Wed Jun 14 16:32:28 2017  iamaleksey:I don't think so
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Wed Jun 14 17:01:05 2017  exlt:3.0.14 and 3.0.15?
Wed Jun 14 17:01:10 2017  exlt:wha?
Wed Jun 14 17:01:12 2017  jeffj:#13004 explains it
Wed Jun 14 17:01:13 2017  CassBotJr:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-13004 (Patch Available; Unresolved; 3.0.x, 3.11.x, 4.x): "Corruption while adding a column to a table"
Wed Jun 14 17:01:21 2017  jeffj:there's a corruption bug that requires a bump to messaging protocol
Wed Jun 14 17:01:33 2017  jeffj:bumping that protocol mid-release makes schema changes and whatnot not-propagate properly
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Wed Jun 14 17:01:52 2017  jeffj:so 3.0.14 will include a translation step that let's you do rolling upgrades without breaking schema et al
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Wed Jun 14 17:02:48 2017  jeffj:and the actual version bump / corruption fix will be 3.0.15
Wed Jun 14 17:13:04 2017  exlt:Hypothetical: C* 3.0.15 is the latest release I see on the downloads page. I'm a C* DBA currently running 3.0.6, explain to me in reasonably simple terms what I need to know to upgrade to the latest 3.0.15.
Wed Jun 14 17:13:43 2017  exlt:I've read through the ticket rather quickly and don't really understand the need for 2 version here, still.
Wed Jun 14 17:14:11 2017  exlt:sorry, to follow the ticket, say I'm on 3.0.9 instead of .6 :)
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Wed Jun 14 17:17:20 2017  exlt:so this is all about the need to make schema changes during upgrades? don't we always recommend not doing that?
Wed Jun 14 17:19:12 2017  iamaleksey:we don't recommend doing it during major upgrades
Wed Jun 14 17:19:27 2017  iamaleksey:during minors we always guaranteed you can do everything
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Wed Jun 14 17:20:13 2017  iamaleksey:the idea is that if you don't care about any possible interruptions you can just go directly to 3.0.15
Wed Jun 14 17:20:31 2017  iamaleksey:but 3.0.14 as an intermediate steps for those who care about continuity
Wed Jun 14 17:24:04 2017  exlt:I'm a non-C*-internals-savvy C* DBA: why would I not care about continuity? do I have to go through 2 rolling upgrades of 3.0.14 and 3.0.15 to get to 3.0.15 from any 3.0.x version?
Wed Jun 14 17:24:29 2017  exlt:I'm really trying to understand how to explain this to users..
Wed Jun 14 17:24:47 2017  exlt:from the user confusion perspective, this is highly confusing
Wed Jun 14 17:25:52 2017  exlt:and when 3.0.43 is the latest release, do I still need to install 3.0.14 first, then upgrade to 3.0.43?
Wed Jun 14 17:26:06 2017  aweisberg:Well it's not an optimal situation, but making it less confusing means forcing people to have downtime. We are already in the situation where the bug exists.
Wed Jun 14 17:26:19 2017  aweisberg:Best thing we can do is get good at explaining it.
Wed Jun 14 17:28:29 2017  jeffj:exlt: in some environments, it may take weeks to do a full bounce, and you may have automation that creates and deletes tables every day - in that case, you'd want to go through 3.0.14
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Wed Jun 14 17:32:35 2017  exlt:right. I understand, but I'm not keen on making those folks, in particular, do that twice
Wed Jun 14 17:33:09 2017  exlt:and I'm not 100% clear on why this needs 2 releases - is there no (more) elegant way to fix this in one go?
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Wed Jun 14 17:35:16 2017  iamaleksey:it's a shitty situation, but what can you do; we failed to come up with a solution that doesn't bump the messaging version in a minor release
Wed Jun 14 17:36:54 2017  exlt:yeah - you all are smart folks and I lean on you to come up with the best solutions to things, but I'm mainly concerned with someone doing the normal "upgrade to the latest version in my major.minor" and getting into some kind of trouble - what are the ramifications if they do schema updates without going through 3.0.14?
Wed Jun 14 17:37:56 2017  iamaleksey:they won't be propagated; digests won't match; hints won't be replayed
Wed Jun 14 17:38:15 2017  iamaleksey:for big clusters would mean no hints and no proper schema changes for days to weeks
Wed Jun 14 17:39:39 2017  iamaleksey:to be more specific: schema will propagate slowly as more and more nodes get updated and start receiving the updates; once they do, digests will start matching again and hints will be delivered
Wed Jun 14 17:40:18 2017  iamaleksey:hints not working have consequences on batchlog replays which affects MVs
Wed Jun 14 17:40:45 2017  iamaleksey:folks with small clusters wouldn't care much either way
Wed Jun 14 17:41:06 2017  iamaleksey:folks with bigger clusters will have an option
Wed Jun 14 17:42:11 2017  exlt:3.0.14 won't be available via apt, it will have to be manually wget'ed, I guess
Wed Jun 14 17:46:35 2017  iamaleksey:I think that's alright
Wed Jun 14 17:49:11 2017  exlt:this is a complete hack, but what about one release, but including some trigger to do the right thing, when needed during upgrade, if someone needs schema changes during upgrade? `java -Ddont-move-my-cheese=true`, then document it
Wed Jun 14 17:50:34 2017  iamaleksey:that might be a better idea than two releases.
Wed Jun 14 17:50:37 2017  exlt:I'll be blunt, 2 releases sucks for typical users, particularly if it will screw them just upgrading to the latest version in the 3.0 series
Wed Jun 14 17:50:47 2017  iamaleksey:right
Wed Jun 14 17:51:09 2017  iamaleksey:though you'll still have to do rolling twice if you care about continuity
Wed Jun 14 17:51:52 2017  iamaleksey:so basically a cmd flag two use override the messaging version - use our existing (30) if set
Wed Jun 14 17:52:02 2017  iamaleksey:otherwise default to 3015 (3014)
Wed Jun 14 17:52:24 2017  iamaleksey:I like it. good thinking. let me reflect a bit on why it may not work
Wed Jun 14 17:54:02 2017  iamaleksey:yep. this should work; I think we should go with your variation
Wed Jun 14 17:54:07 2017  iamaleksey:care to leave a comment on JIRA?
Wed Jun 14 17:54:21 2017  exlt:sure
Wed Jun 14 17:55:09 2017  iamaleksey:thanks
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