Displaying #maven-dev/2017-09-09.log:

Sat Sep 9 08:40:07 2017  rfscholte:Joined the channel
Sat Sep 9 08:56:31 2017  stephenc:rfscholte: yt?
Sat Sep 9 08:56:35 2017  stephenc:is once again at the side of a GAA pitch
Sat Sep 9 08:59:48 2017  rfscholte:yeah
Sat Sep 9 09:00:34 2017  stephenc:So I think I've socialised the classloader change long enough
Sat Sep 9 09:01:09 2017  stephenc:I think we merge and cut beta-1
Sat Sep 9 09:01:20 2017  rfscholte:I agree
Sat Sep 9 09:01:47 2017  stephenc:Is there anything else left or is it just the classloader one
Sat Sep 9 09:02:00 2017  rfscholte:I met Stephane Nicoll this week and talked about this topic as well. He also thinks this is a proper change
Sat Sep 9 09:02:13 2017  rfscholte:AFAIK that was the last one
Sat Sep 9 09:02:20 2017  rfscholte:let me check Jira
Sat Sep 9 09:02:52 2017  stephenc:Ok. Assuming it is, I'll cut beta-1 this weekend sometime (wife permitting)
Sat Sep 9 09:03:43 2017  stephenc:Or should we just shoot for 3.5.1 and burn the version number?
Sat Sep 9 09:03:44 2017  rfscholte:ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException when parsing POM is too hard to analyze right now.
Sat Sep 9 09:04:25 2017  stephenc:Yep. We've logged some progress for one half of that issue
Sat Sep 9 09:04:43 2017  stephenc:Should really split the issue in two
Sat Sep 9 09:05:04 2017  stephenc:That way we can close the half we "fixed"
Sat Sep 9 09:05:06 2017  rfscholte:I can't remember what we've decided. I don't mind burning numbers, it'll make the release process easier.
Sat Sep 9 09:05:21 2017  stephenc:Let's burn numbers
Sat Sep 9 09:05:22 2017  rfscholte:Sounds like a plan :)
Sat Sep 9 09:05:28 2017  stephenc:Less work for me
Sat Sep 9 09:05:56 2017  stephenc:Ok, I'll shoot for 3.5.1 any issues and we go to 3.5.2, etc
Sat Sep 9 09:05:56 2017  rfscholte:and split aioobe into 2
Sat Sep 9 09:06:06 2017  rfscholte:yep
Sat Sep 9 09:06:28 2017  stephenc:Yes, do you have context tomato split the JIRA
Sat Sep 9 09:06:36 2017  rfscholte:haven't heard anyone about the missing 3.3.4, 3.3.5, 3.3.6, etc :D
Sat Sep 9 09:06:51 2017  stephenc:S/tomato/to
Sat Sep 9 09:07:02 2017  stephenc:curses autocorrect
Sat Sep 9 09:07:07 2017  rfscholte:LOL
Sat Sep 9 09:07:27 2017  rfscholte:probably better to let me split that
Sat Sep 9 09:07:37 2017  stephenc:Ok.
Sat Sep 9 09:08:04 2017  stephenc:We can keep the existing issue as is and just note that we spun out the part we fixed into new issue
Sat Sep 9 09:09:33 2017  stephenc:CYM for visuals
Sat Sep 9 09:10:30 2017  rfscholte:at least it is dry. Here it is raining a lot...
Sat Sep 9 09:10:45 2017  stephenc:I have a brolly
Sat Sep 9 09:10:55 2017  stephenc:Drizzle forecast
Sat Sep 9 09:12:58 2017  stephenc:I'd like to drop Java 7 for the next "big" release
Sat Sep 9 09:14:20 2017  stephenc:We'd previously said every minor release (i.e. 3.6.0 for us) was when we revisited JRE requirements
Sat Sep 9 09:15:14 2017  stephenc:And iirc it was "all currently free supported by Oracle, plus one back if there is only one)
Sat Sep 9 09:16:16 2017  stephenc:rfscholte: ^^^
Sat Sep 9 09:17:36 2017  rfscholte:I'd prefer supporting the 3 latest available JRE's knowing that a lot of people use JAVA_HOME to compile there code.
Sat Sep 9 09:17:39 2017  stephenc:So if we stick with that (and I cannot find it with my phone) then once Java 9 is live, a 3.6.0 would drop support for Java 7 as the Maven JRE (tollchains for compiling against older)
Sat Sep 9 09:18:20 2017  stephenc:Getting harder to keep access to Java 7 JFK's though
Sat Sep 9 09:18:30 2017  stephenc:S/JFK/JDK
Sat Sep 9 09:19:50 2017  rfscholte:Maybe it is also a nice way to make developers move forward with newer versions. But quite often it's the ancient web containers that block improvements.
Sat Sep 9 09:20:41 2017  rfscholte:I would like to have an install wizard with Maven where you can specify all your JDKs, which results in a pre-filed toolchains.xml
Sat Sep 9 09:21:21 2017  stephenc:Yep but the issue for my PoV is Java 9 changes too much
Sat Sep 9 09:21:41 2017  rfscholte:yes, it changes really a lot
Sat Sep 9 09:22:16 2017  stephenc:Building accross versions gets tricky
Sat Sep 9 09:22:39 2017  stephenc:Already we are facing a big job to get Jenkins to run on 9
Sat Sep 9 09:22:56 2017  stephenc:And at least Jenkins is pure 8 at this time
Sat Sep 9 09:24:02 2017  stephenc:I've seen issues with "fixes" that let things "work" on 9 not working on 7 and vice Verda
Sat Sep 9 09:24:35 2017  rfscholte:so if we want to fully support 2 JREs (where Java 9 is not an option yet), we should maybe stay on 7 a bit longer. But that's a question for the dev-list :)
Sat Sep 9 09:24:57 2017  stephenc:As 8 is still (free) supported by oracle they have to at least tip the hat to 8
Sat Sep 9 09:25:17 2017  stephenc:3.5.1 is Java 7&8 because no 9 this week!
Sat Sep 9 09:26:13 2017  stephenc:But when we do release a 3.6.0 that would be after 9 is released
Sat Sep 9 09:26:44 2017  stephenc:I think it would be fine to say, maintenance on 3.5.x for say 6 months
Sat Sep 9 09:27:05 2017  stephenc:That way we'd have 3.5.x and 3.6.x releases in parallel
Sat Sep 9 09:27:20 2017  stephenc:And if you need Java 7 you stick with 3.5.x
Sat Sep 9 09:27:49 2017  stephenc:Not that we have many releases
Sat Sep 9 09:27:51 2017  rfscholte:My main issue is: are we really helping the community by requiring Java8. What will projects do which can't or don't want to upgrade? stay on older Maven versions?
Sat Sep 9 09:28:08 2017  stephenc:Yep stay on 3.5.x
Sat Sep 9 09:28:51 2017  stephenc:The sticking on 7 from my PoV makes it harder to move forward for the whole community
Sat Sep 9 09:29:54 2017  stephenc:If we give people fair warning
Sat Sep 9 09:29:55 2017  stephenc:And notice
Sat Sep 9 09:29:59 2017  stephenc:Then everyone can start petitioning to raise the bar
Sat Sep 9 09:30:12 2017  rfscholte:do a twitter poll :)
Sat Sep 9 09:30:40 2017  stephenc:It's bad enough that you have log4j2 2.9.0 release that blows up in jetty with Java 8
Sat Sep 9 09:31:18 2017  stephenc:(Classpath scanning blows on a versions class in meta-inf)
Sat Sep 9 09:32:09 2017  stephenc:Twitter poll coming up
Sat Sep 9 09:36:30 2017  stephenc:https://twitter.com/asfmavenproject/status/906451059966693376
Sat Sep 9 09:37:44 2017  rfscholte:let's see what will happen :)
Sat Sep 9 09:38:30 2017  stephenc:Retweet wide
Sat Sep 9 09:39:02 2017  rfscholte:btw, toolchain will even work with older JRE's/JDK', not just 5+,
Sat Sep 9 09:43:19 2017  stephenc:Surefire dropped support for pre-Java 5 a while back
Sat Sep 9 09:44:19 2017  stephenc:So if you keep to recent plugins (recommend) then Java 5 is as old as you can go
Sat Sep 9 09:44:52 2017  stephenc:(Reason being inability to create test environment)
Sat Sep 9 09:46:07 2017  stephenc:We cannot install a Java 1.4 on the same os as a Java 8 as the installers do not have an intersection of OS versions that the installers check against
Sat Sep 9 09:47:15 2017  stephenc:If you have Apple Java 6 on your Mac, then you can run 6... but that's as old you can go on a Mac OS that you can install 8 on
Sat Sep 9 09:48:05 2017  stephenc:Windows os support is such that you cannot install 1.4 (on newer windows) and 8 won't install on XP iirc
Sat Sep 9 09:48:53 2017  rfscholte:could be, never hit those issues.
Sat Sep 9 09:48:59 2017  stephenc:Linuxes all have kernel binary incompatible changes, so last time I tried you cannot run 1.4.x on the same as a kernel that runs 8
Sat Sep 9 09:49:18 2017  stephenc:Might be able to custom-build OpenJDK though
Sat Sep 9 09:50:14 2017  stephenc:Certainly 1.3 is impossible since 2011/2012
Sat Sep 9 09:50:55 2017  stephenc:Getting the JRE signatures for animal-sniffer was an archeological exercise with VMware to run the old OSes
Sat Sep 9 09:53:09 2017  stephenc:Now you might be able to install Java 1.4.x on XP and copy the JDK folder to a newer OS... might run there
Sat Sep 9 09:54:03 2017  stephenc:And similar tricks might work for linux (if you have the right magic kernel version)
Sat Sep 9 09:55:01 2017  stephenc:But Kristian tired of all that and (back when he was active) dropped support for pre-Java 5 from surefire
Sat Sep 9 09:56:44 2017  stephenc:Iirc surefire-booter is target 1.5
Sat Sep 9 09:56:48 2017  rfscholte:adminstration for AIOOBE issues done
Sat Sep 9 09:58:30 2017  stephenc:Ty
Sat Sep 9 09:58:32 2017  rfscholte:when there were 3 people active on surefire I didn't pay much attention to that, they covered/verified each other and it is quite a complex project
Sat Sep 9 09:58:50 2017  stephenc:So surefire might even now be 1.6 as minimum
Sat Sep 9 09:59:02 2017  rfscholte:I'm pretty sure about that
Sat Sep 9 09:59:38 2017  stephenc:But I think you can use an older one that is 1.5 without (major) issues
Sat Sep 9 10:00:26 2017  stephenc:But in essence if you want to build&test then 1.5 is about as far back as you. An easily go
Sat Sep 9 10:00:52 2017  stephenc:And 1.6 is a more realistic minimum
Sat Sep 9 10:01:16 2017  rfscholte:true
Sat Sep 9 10:01:23 2017  stephenc:Does Java 9 even let you -target 1.7
Sat Sep 9 10:02:09 2017  stephenc:Iirc they were saying you could only target 8 bytecode with 9
Sat Sep 9 10:02:21 2017  rfscholte:yes, it supports 1.6 and above
Sat Sep 9 10:02:38 2017  rfscholte:but better to use release 6 (and above)
Sat Sep 9 10:03:18 2017  stephenc:So basically at this point 6 is the *effective* minimum target
Sat Sep 9 10:03:28 2017  rfscholte:yes
Sat Sep 9 10:03:36 2017  stephenc:And 5 is for the intrepid explorers only
Sat Sep 9 10:04:03 2017  stephenc:1.4 I claim is a lost country if running Java 8
Sat Sep 9 10:04:45 2017  stephenc:7 might be old enough that you can get an old build of 7 to co-exist with 1.4
Sat Sep 9 10:04:58 2017  rfscholte:I think so
Sat Sep 9 10:05:32 2017  stephenc:Which is why I only committed to building back to 5 with toolchains ;-)
Sat Sep 9 10:07:35 2017  stephenc:But I don't think the few Maven developers we have (let alone any new blood we may pick up) have the energy to waste trying to check against older Jews
Sat Sep 9 10:07:48 2017  stephenc:curses autocorrect
Sat Sep 9 10:08:01 2017  stephenc:S/Jews/JREs
Sat Sep 9 10:08:44 2017  stephenc:(The worst thing of autocorrect is it auto-applies to the last word when I hit "send")
Sat Sep 9 10:09:27 2017  rfscholte:it's the CI server which should help verifying against older JREs (or was it jews ;) )
Sat Sep 9 10:11:34 2017  stephenc:Yeah, that doesn't have much in the way of Jews less than 7
Sat Sep 9 10:11:47 2017  stephenc:curses autocorrect again
Sat Sep 9 10:15:05 2017  stephenc:has to head
Sat Sep 9 10:15:13 2017  stephenc:Matches are over now
Sat Sep 9 10:15:38 2017  stephenc:We had top scorer of they day though !!! Woot
Sat Sep 9 10:16:44 2017  rfscholte:nice!
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