Displaying #maven-dev/2017-11-04.log:

Sat Nov 4 08:20:23 2017  olamy:Joined the channel
Sat Nov 4 08:48:58 2017  rfscholte:Joined the channel
Sat Nov 4 11:03:04 2017  rfscholte:hboutemy: Hi Hervé, I've started https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Maven+issues+summary to get a better view on all our projects at once
Sat Nov 4 11:03:28 2017  hboutemy:Hi Robert
Sat Nov 4 11:03:59 2017  hboutemy:oh, great!
Sat Nov 4 11:04:39 2017  hboutemy:I'd just add "JIRA issues"
Sat Nov 4 11:04:42 2017  rfscholte:it takes some time to have it complete, it's all manual (just like those git repos)
Sat Nov 4 11:05:29 2017  hboutemy:yes, someone has to do the crappy job: thank you for taking care of this one :)
Sat Nov 4 11:06:07 2017  hboutemy:I hope we'll come to a situation where we can have more contributions back
Sat Nov 4 11:06:37 2017  hboutemy:build avoidance/incremental build is realy the next super big requirement
Sat Nov 4 11:07:16 2017  rfscholte:I think I found someone. Met her at JavaOne and she 's really enthousiastic. Will start with her on JXR and see how she will do
Sat Nov 4 11:07:20 2017  hboutemy:I discussed with Stephen yesterday: we have a nice target at Jenkins level
Sat Nov 4 11:07:43 2017  hboutemy:jxr is now on git, hope this helps
Sat Nov 4 11:08:07 2017  hboutemy:I worked with Arnaud last week: did you see the summary?
Sat Nov 4 11:08:08 2017  rfscholte:I know, that's why. And the number of issues is small and all doable
Sat Nov 4 11:08:17 2017  rfscholte:Yeah, I read it
Sat Nov 4 11:08:30 2017  hboutemy:this gave me back energy
Sat Nov 4 11:08:48 2017  hboutemy:we should really do such f2f meetings
Sat Nov 4 11:09:12 2017  hboutemy:or with video, it's great too: discussing with Stephen was a pleasure
Sat Nov 4 11:09:26 2017  hboutemy:just don't forget to write back outcomes
Sat Nov 4 11:09:48 2017  hboutemy:you're still doing shows about Java 9 ?
Sat Nov 4 11:09:58 2017  rfscholte:What if we could get a fund to spend some weekends per year together with the active team?
Sat Nov 4 11:10:16 2017  hboutemy:"fund"?
Sat Nov 4 11:10:21 2017  hboutemy:do you need money?
Sat Nov 4 11:10:47 2017  hboutemy:(I can understand...)
Sat Nov 4 11:10:56 2017  hboutemy:or "just" organization ?
Sat Nov 4 11:10:57 2017  rfscholte::) yes. Did one talk last thursday at JFall, netherlands together with Dalibor and Uwe
Sat Nov 4 11:11:18 2017  rfscholte:next week Devoxx: one tooltalk and one BOF
Sat Nov 4 11:12:14 2017  hboutemy:in fact, I don't know how we can get money from the project perspective
Sat Nov 4 11:12:28 2017  hboutemy:it's at individual side
Sat Nov 4 11:12:50 2017  rfscholte:Meeting during a conference is okay, but not perfect. September I was at the Java 9 Launch party with Karl Heinz and we spend 1 day together. That was very inspiring and efficient
Sat Nov 4 11:13:11 2017  hboutemy:I expect to go to FOSDEM for 2 days
Sat Nov 4 11:13:24 2017  hboutemy:this year, I don't have any agenda conflict
Sat Nov 4 11:13:25 2017  hboutemy::)
Sat Nov 4 11:13:32 2017  rfscholte:perfect :D
Sat Nov 4 11:14:13 2017  hboutemy:Karl Heinz was in SF with you?
Sat Nov 4 11:14:28 2017  hboutemy:or in was a dutch event?
Sat Nov 4 11:14:38 2017  hboutemy:(or german)
Sat Nov 4 11:15:16 2017  hboutemy:having 1 to 1 meeting is already something: IMHO, we just need a way to write back something to share
Sat Nov 4 11:15:21 2017  hboutemy:that's what I tried with Arnaud
Sat Nov 4 11:15:42 2017  hboutemy:getting more organized meetings is more complex: agenda + travel
Sat Nov 4 11:15:57 2017  hboutemy:there is the video way of doing things
Sat Nov 4 11:16:23 2017  hboutemy:having public video like Jason organized is intimidating
Sat Nov 4 11:16:54 2017  rfscholte:Karl Heinz was in Munich
Sat Nov 4 11:17:10 2017  hboutemy:ok, in Munich: easier :)
Sat Nov 4 11:17:32 2017  hboutemy:I'll at Paris Open Source Summit in december, for the 2 days
Sat Nov 4 11:17:57 2017  hboutemy:I don't expect to meet someone from Maven team
Sat Nov 4 11:18:45 2017  hboutemy:but I know Bertrand Delacretaz will be there, and Emmanuel Lecharny
Sat Nov 4 11:18:46 2017  rfscholte:Right, don't think I'll come
Sat Nov 4 11:19:01 2017  hboutemy:sure, I'm just going because it's near
Sat Nov 4 11:19:18 2017  hboutemy:and I had a few holidays to spend before the end of the year
Sat Nov 4 11:19:20 2017  hboutemy::)
Sat Nov 4 11:19:43 2017  rfscholte:nice
Sat Nov 4 11:19:46 2017  hboutemy:do you think there is something we could work on together?
Sat Nov 4 11:19:51 2017  hboutemy:with you and/or Karl Heinz
Sat Nov 4 11:20:06 2017  hboutemy:I think we're a litlle bit too isolated
Sat Nov 4 11:20:30 2017  hboutemy:and I felt Karl Heinz was loosing interest
Sat Nov 4 11:20:45 2017  hboutemy:it's good to know you met him and my impression was wrong
Sat Nov 4 11:20:55 2017  rfscholte:Yes I think we should try to implement the ${this.*} support. I showed Karl Heinz my first ideas and he was impressed
Sat Nov 4 11:21:22 2017  hboutemy:the issue with ${thi.*} is that it's a breaking change
Sat Nov 4 11:21:35 2017  hboutemy:we can do it in a branch, but releasing will be hard
Sat Nov 4 11:21:55 2017  rfscholte:sure, a branch is fine. Just to confirm that it'll work
Sat Nov 4 11:22:11 2017  hboutemy:oh, wait: I have an idea
Sat Nov 4 11:22:17 2017  hboutemy:(bing!)
Sat Nov 4 11:22:22 2017  rfscholte:and it'll only break when this is already used in a property
Sat Nov 4 11:22:42 2017  hboutemy:if we do consumer pom (as a little simplification of build pom)
Sat Nov 4 11:23:05 2017  hboutemy:injecting ${this.*} could be part of the little simplification
Sat Nov 4 11:23:11 2017  hboutemy:isn't it?
Sat Nov 4 11:23:42 2017  hboutemy:then backward compatible
Sat Nov 4 11:23:55 2017  rfscholte:Yes, quite close. I really need to write it down to share it with you
Sat Nov 4 11:23:59 2017  hboutemy:for consumers (not an issue to require a new Maven version to build)
Sat Nov 4 11:24:41 2017  hboutemy:I'm pretty convinced starting to have some sort of consumer pom will help us find a path
Sat Nov 4 11:25:01 2017  rfscholte:absolutely
Sat Nov 4 11:25:02 2017  hboutemy:even if we create mutliple generations of consumer simplifications
Sat Nov 4 11:25:11 2017  hboutemy:that's not an issue
Sat Nov 4 11:25:53 2017  hboutemy:then starting as simple as possible is the best way to deliver fast and learn where the compatibility will break unexpectingly
Sat Nov 4 11:26:00 2017  rfscholte:https://github.com/rfscholte/maven-xml this is the base of my idea. I'm still having issues with chaining the XMLFilters, but I'm sure it'll work in the end
Sat Nov 4 11:27:41 2017  hboutemy:IIUC, you expect to implement this.* as extension?
Sat Nov 4 11:28:37 2017  rfscholte:no, it must become part of core. I don't want others to be able to manipulate the pom.xml, only Maven should be allowed to do that
Sat Nov 4 11:29:06 2017  hboutemy:oh yes, there is this aspect
Sat Nov 4 11:29:27 2017  hboutemy:then why code it this way and not the usual builder way?
Sat Nov 4 11:30:31 2017  rfscholte:I had to start somewhere. I just want to proof this first. Isolated, not being bothered by other stuff (fast development :) )
Sat Nov 4 11:31:03 2017  hboutemy:there is the site.xml interpolation example
Sat Nov 4 11:31:20 2017  hboutemy:it was a nice experiment
Sat Nov 4 11:31:45 2017  hboutemy:IMHO, the key is to be able to generate a consumer pom without this.*
Sat Nov 4 11:32:00 2017  hboutemy:to get compatible pom for lib consumption
Sat Nov 4 11:32:27 2017  rfscholte:exactly
Sat Nov 4 11:32:53 2017  rfscholte:I have to make some drawings first
Sat Nov 4 11:33:26 2017  hboutemy:ok
Sat Nov 4 11:33:39 2017  rfscholte:to make everybody better understand why I chose to solve it like this
Sat Nov 4 11:33:47 2017  hboutemy:isn't flatte plugin able to do the job?
Sat Nov 4 11:33:53 2017  rfscholte:no
Sat Nov 4 11:34:13 2017  hboutemy:ok, then that's a good reason for me
Sat Nov 4 11:35:36 2017  hboutemy:perhaps we should schedule a video meeting on some day with a few maven devs
Sat Nov 4 11:36:07 2017  hboutemy:just to have a few people to discuss and work on some code or objectives
Sat Nov 4 11:36:22 2017  rfscholte:let's do that after devoxx. And there's still this classloading issue we need to solve...
Sat Nov 4 11:36:32 2017  hboutemy:yes
Sat Nov 4 11:37:08 2017  stephenc:I would really like a set of release notes for classloader changes before we merge
Sat Nov 4 11:37:50 2017  stephenc:The 3.5.1 was a nightmare for me trying to actually get to something we could put in release notes to explain what changed
Sat Nov 4 11:38:23 2017  stephenc:And nobody could tell me what the correct behaviour should be or if the changes were closer than before
Sat Nov 4 11:38:45 2017  rfscholte:that's probably a more important question.
Sat Nov 4 11:38:51 2017  stephenc:Swapping one wrong for another wrong is not something we should release
Sat Nov 4 11:39:01 2017  rfscholte:agree
Sat Nov 4 11:39:28 2017  hboutemy:+1
Sat Nov 4 11:39:48 2017  hboutemy:making these classloading changes understandable is hard
Sat Nov 4 11:39:54 2017  hboutemy:but absolutely necessary
Sat Nov 4 11:40:12 2017  stephenc:For 62x5 (x is 7 or 9)
Sat Nov 4 11:40:33 2017  stephenc:The site docs actually call out that TCCL is the plugin classloader
Sat Nov 4 11:40:46 2017  rfscholte:We probably need a separate set of tests only for classloading. stephenc: your set was already a good start
Sat Nov 4 11:40:58 2017  hboutemy:+1
Sat Nov 4 11:41:06 2017  stephenc:So changing it in our fix needs to be coupled to a site doc change
Sat Nov 4 11:41:34 2017  stephenc:The 6209 (I think) extension loader changes quite frankly scare me
Sat Nov 4 11:42:47 2017  hboutemy:I personnally did not take time to really investigate in details: I think I'll need to do it or I'll continue not to be able to really help
Sat Nov 4 11:43:29 2017  stephenc:If we want to try https://meet.google.com/hsh-yefu-thw (i have 3 bars at the side of football field)
Sat Nov 4 11:43:32 2017  rfscholte:https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG-6298 this is also weird
Sat Nov 4 11:44:12 2017  hboutemy:I'll need to have meal with family now
Sat Nov 4 11:44:22 2017  stephenc:No worries
Sat Nov 4 11:44:37 2017  hboutemy:I'll finish git migration this afternoon
Sat Nov 4 11:44:39 2017  stephenc:Forgot your 1h TZ
Sat Nov 4 11:44:55 2017  stephenc:It’s only 11:44 here
Sat Nov 4 11:45:00 2017  hboutemy:then I think I'll try to dig into these classloader changes
Sat Nov 4 11:45:24 2017  stephenc:rfscholte: if you can’t join I’ll shut down the call
Sat Nov 4 11:45:40 2017  hboutemy:I'll be back in 1h or 2
Sat Nov 4 11:45:42 2017  hboutemy:bye
Sat Nov 4 11:46:27 2017  rfscholte:just looking for my cam
Sat Nov 4 11:47:12 2017  stephenc:6298 looks like we need to git bisect
Sat Nov 4 17:55:42 2017  hboutemy:stephenc: https://github.com/stephenc/asf-gitpubsub-jenkins-plugin/pull/1
Sat Nov 4 17:55:45 2017  hboutemy:https://github.com/stephenc/asf-gitpubsub-jenkins-plugin/pull/2
Sat Nov 4 17:56:11 2017  hboutemy:the second one includes another implementation of the first one...

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